The Toller Forum

[StridersMomma]

This post goes with my other post 'chewing while we are away'

We started crating Strider again while we are out of the house which isnt often since I have been off work for 3 weeks due to carpal tunnel release surgery. I noticed that when we are getting ready to leave the house i.e. getting shoes and coats on he gets very anxious. He starts to run around the house in anticipation of going with us. When I tell him to 'go to bed' meaning go to his crate he starts to shake and goes in that direction but I have to tell him a few times which is not normal. When he gets in his crate he starts whining and when we leave he barks. I put a video camera on him yesterday and today to see if he ever settled down. Yesterday the video went for 22 minutes and he did nothing but whine, bark, howl, and try to open his crate with his feet and teeth. When we give him treats he ignores them till we get home. Today as I was getting ready in the bathroom to go out to lunch I played fetch with him (hard to do from the bathroom) and wore him out, so I thought. I proceeded to get ready while I got him a slice of cheese and two meaty bones. I told him to go to bed and he zoomed right in the crate since I had treats. He ate the cheese while I was there and I threw a ball in the crate for chewing. I set up the camera and was on my way. While I was getting shoes and coat on he was quiet except a few whines and I praised him with a good boy a few times. The moment I closed the door he started up again and only laid down for 30 seconds. I dont know what to do. He is exhausted and thirsty and looks so sad. I go back to work next Saturday and I need to get this fixed before next Monday. When I do work it is Mon and Wed 6am-2pm but he is crated from 830am-130pm and Saturday I work and my son has hockey so he is crated then for about 2-3 hours. He is also crated if we ever decided to go out to eat or if I have errands to run. It is not a lot but seems too much for him. I would love to take him with us when we go out to eat or for errands but it always seems either too cold or too hot outside. What temperatures are too cold or too hot? We used to leave him out just roaming the house but on Dec 23rd that ended cause he was chewing things, you can read about that in my other post mentioned above. He was always such a wonderful well behaved dog but since Dec he seems to have issues. Please Help!! I will try to post a bit of the video on you tube.
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Shamrock's A Stride Ahead (Strider) 7-22-07
Sagewood's Hard Days Night (Riley) x Shamrock's Ruddy Riverdance (Murphy)
http://www.dreamlash.com/strider

[StridersMomma]

Well we went out to dinner. My husband insisted to let the dog stay gated in the laundry room/hall. I told him not to over and over since he was chewing on things. I set the video camera. We came home and there was water in the garage. I came in the house and he had chewed through the water line under the utility sink and the laundry room flooded, a corner of the living room flooded, the hall and hall closet, and it went down into my weight room in the basement. We had to get rid of all the remnants in the basement and some ceiling tiles. I watched the video and he 3 minutes after we left he started chewing on the water line and 5 minutes after we left the water line burst. It was leaking water for an hour and a half. He never barked once. Except for chewing on the line he was perfectly content. I am so frustrated and mad that I am in tears.
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Shamrock's A Stride Ahead (Strider) 7-22-07
Sagewood's Hard Days Night (Riley) x Shamrock's Ruddy Riverdance (Murphy)
http://www.dreamlash.com/strider

[Boo]

If Strider was fine at beig left until recently then it is likely that something has happened that has upset his routine. It will be difficult to identify what as dogs think differently to us.

I think you are going to have to go back to puppy basics i.e. always feed him in his crate and build up to feeding him with the dooor shut, put your coat on or pick your keys up, then put them straight down or take the coat straiught off again and build up the period of time between and then add moving to another room, going outside and immediately coming back in again, build up the time, go out one door and come in another. Take him right back to basics.

However, it is probably a good idea to look at the crate as well. Is it still big enough? Can he lie down and turn around comfortably. Where is the crate located? Is it near a heat source or something noisy like a fridge or the boiler? Is it in a place he likes to be?

Other things that can help are DAP diffusers, covering the crate with a sheet/blacket etc (to give it a den-like feeling), treat dispenser toys and leaving a radio on as background noise for him.

One other thought - Ari gets too hot if I put a thick bed he can't kick out of the way into his crate. If Strider can't get comfortable he isn't going to settle. I am also assuming that Strider is still getting lots of physical and mental exercise - thinking wears a dog out much more than running around so maybe do a little bit of training before you have to go out? You say you have had wrist surgery, is there anyone you can get to come and take Strider for a lead walk until your wrist heals? Or even a regular dog walker so that Strider's time in the crate is split up into chunks he can manage.

Good luck, it is probably going to take you some time to crack this again. You are going to have to experiment and see what works for you and Strider.
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Boo signing off now, "Boing! - Time for Bed!"

[StridersMomma]

[cathyjs]

Could it be something that happened while you were out like a thunderstorm, or someone noisy coming to the door? A friends dog went all to bits when the house had a lightening strike during a thunderstorm and if she had not been in at the time she wouldn't have known what caused him to be so terrified of loud bangs. Is he any better if the crate is partly covered? Susan Garretts "Crate Games" book is brilliant for getting dogs happy and really loving being in a crate - you could try some of her methods. Otherwise like Rachel I think the answer lies in going right back to basics, with a few minutes at a time alone building up really slowly.
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Cathy, with tollers Newfanova Nordic Pizzazz, Newfanova Aurora at Shoredancer and Avonwharfe Grace at Shoredancer

[EuroNova]

Hi,

If he is not showing sign of distress (barking, pacing...), it might not be separation anxiety at all.
You mentioned you recently had an operation, have you managed to keep is activity level? Is he getting mentally stimulated?

We only ever had problem leaving Nova on her own when she was very young, it was classic anxiety, she was screaming so much she would make herself sick and then would destroy her bedding.
From a very young age, I have been telling her "let's get ready" when I put my coat and she coming with me, but if I am getting ready to leave her, I speak in a much more calm voice and I say " no, you are staying here"... she really knows now the difference now.
Also everytime we leave her, she gets a kong with a bit of peanut butter, or a nice bone to chew. She now see when i get ready and start getting her treat ready and can't wait for us to be out the door.

Obviously in your case, it a lot more extreme... I am so sorry about the water damage, it must be so upsetting, especially to have the video of it!
But I do think that if it is not separation anxiety and it is destruction through boredom or as a revenge for being left... the best solution is to try and make your depart the best possible experience and making sure your dog is possitively tired and has plenty of yummy appropriate things to chew.

In the meantime, the crate is probably the safest option!
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Vero and Nova (Secret Squirrel at Euronova)
www.euronova-tollers.com

[StridersMomma]

Thanks for the replies. He has been getting the same amount of attention/exercise as before if not more now that Im home. I think that he associates the crate with us being gone a long time since that is the only time we crate him. I am going to start crating him randomly throughout the day for different periods of times so he knows that the crate is good. I also moved his crate. I will try a few different things and hope we can work this out. I am also going to start crating him at night again. We have totally let our dog become ruler of the house!
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Shamrock's A Stride Ahead (Strider) 7-22-07
Sagewood's Hard Days Night (Riley) x Shamrock's Ruddy Riverdance (Murphy)
http://www.dreamlash.com/strider

[pudsey]

I'd give him all his meals in there as well, try to make the crate a really good place to be. Does he play with Kongs? Try stuffing a Kong with some really good stuff, and only give him those when in his crate.
If possible I wouldn't leave him in his crate when you go out until he's comfortable spending time in it while you're around otherwise you'll undo any good work.
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Janice with
Paddy - Newfanova Pudsey Bear
Rio - Shoredancer Shellseeker AW(B)
Zoe - Riverwatcher Yakone

[cathyjs]

can you also try and not have much interaction just before he goes in the crate so there is less difference between "before I go in" and "after I am in". For example if you play with him a lot before you go out to tire him and then put him in the crate, then there is a big contrast between the attention he gets and then being alone. If you can do the playing, then have a quiet time before putting him in the crate, and put him in with no fuss, just matter of fact - "in your crate" with a stuffed kong or bone, then there is less chance of him feeling abandoned. Don't know if this makes sense - but I always give mine a stuffed kong when they are left - not at any other time though. So I put the little one in her crate, give them teach a kong and go out without any more interaction. Your plan to crate him at other times will also help make it just a routine thing.
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Cathy, with tollers Newfanova Nordic Pizzazz, Newfanova Aurora at Shoredancer and Avonwharfe Grace at Shoredancer

[StridersMomma]

I am starting to think that he has always barked in his crate. The chewing is what is new. Today I left for lunch and put a towel over his crate, gave him two meaty bones, and a PB kong. When I got back he had the towel in the crate with him and tore up. He did not touch any of the treats including the kong. I am only giving him the kong while he is in his crate so he will know that this is the only place he will be able to eat the peanut butter. When we crate him and we are here he is absolutely fine, he has always and still does go in it on his own. I know the crate isnt the problem it is us leaving him that is the problem. For now he is just gonna have to suck it up and deal with us being gone once in a while, we have no choice.
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Shamrock's A Stride Ahead (Strider) 7-22-07
Sagewood's Hard Days Night (Riley) x Shamrock's Ruddy Riverdance (Murphy)
http://www.dreamlash.com/strider