The Toller Forum

[EuroNova]

I am more and more tempted to move from dry food to home made food and reading the very interesting article Bekki posted on facebook, I am again thinking of making the big jump.
Daily mail: Is the pet food you are serving up killing your four-legged friend? (and making your vet rich)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1244595/Is-food-youre-feeding-pet-killing--making-vet-rich.html


I just don't believe that one brand of food can provide everything a dog need and I am sure it leads to deficiencies.

I currently mix 2 type of dry food.
*Origen (all sort of meats and mainly potatoe as a card source) : it is really high in protein, Nova does great on it and her poo (sorry to share) are much more firm
*Mixed with Eukanuba dermatosis (fish and potatoes), good for coat with loads of good oil
No grains and not such a high protein content

Anyhow, I want to start cooking but I also want to make sure that I don't do more harm than good. I am a bit scared of raw but would prefer to broil the meat even if veggies stay raw.
Anyone has the name of a good recipe book? or a few recipe to share?

If some of you are friend with Yuki on Facebook, she has posted a recipe (see her pictures) that seems easy enough and works well for her toller (she has had blood tests done). If you are interested let me know and I will post it here.
I would like to find a couple more recipe like this to alternate.
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Vero and Nova (Secret Squirrel at Euronova)
www.euronova-tollers.com

[cathyjs]

why are you scared of raw feeding?? there is nothing more natural for dogs. If you use a properly balanced mix of meats and carbs (and dogs do need carbs for energy - they shouldn't be using protein as an energy source) and herbal supplements then you can give your dog everything she needs in the proper proportions. Some raw feeding systems have been used for over 60 years - there is nothing new about BARF! And there is no risk of salmonella to the dogs as they have a shorter gut than humans and look at what they scavenge!
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Cathy, with tollers Newfanova Nordic Pizzazz, Newfanova Aurora at Shoredancer and Avonwharfe Grace at Shoredancer

[EuroNova]

Thanks Cathy,

I guess it's just because it is so "new" to me.... I have always fed dry food, but I do feel that they shorten dog's life expectancy.
Does it make a huge difference if the meat is broiled?

Do you have a good book to recommend to start with Barf?

Thanks

Veronique
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Vero and Nova (Secret Squirrel at Euronova)
www.euronova-tollers.com

[cathyjs]

Ideas on BARF are changing all the time. The main thing is you have to make sure to give variety, and when they say "raw meaty bones" they mean "meaty"! not just big recreational bones. A helpful forum is the British Canine Barf Health one:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/BritishCanineBarfHealth/?yguid=295435701

I raw feed my dogs but not BARF. I have used a diet based closely on Juliette de Bairacli Levy's herbal teaching for over 16 years and it has been brilliant for all my dogs. As mine do agility I feel I am asking a lot from them. They work their socks off for me and I know they need they need optimum nutrition as a base for their agility fitness, so they get a carefully worked out diet and specially formulated herbal supplements too. It wouldn't suit everyone as it can be fiddly. Everyone has their own ideas about feeding dogs, and if a method works then no reason to change. All I can say is this method works well for me and my dogs.
I would suggest you do some research on local butchers, specialist dog meat suppliers and places like poultry processors in your area, so you know what will be available; join a forum on raw feeding and if you need any more info just pm me.
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Cathy, with tollers Newfanova Nordic Pizzazz, Newfanova Aurora at Shoredancer and Avonwharfe Grace at Shoredancer

[TracyF]

Hi Veronique

I was in the same boat as you and started out feeding Fred on dried food, but I didn't feel he was getting enough variety and though I had heard of feeding raw was very nervous of giving it a go. But Cathy was extremely helpful (she is Fred's breeder) and Fred has been on raw food for the last few years and it suits him really well. I researched the subject on the internet and with Cathy's guidance found a diet that suited Fred (and me!) It did take a bit of getting used to but it soon becomes second nature...give it a go
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Tracy & Fred (Shoredancer Super Surfer)

[Tollermom]

Our Nova is getting raw deepfrozen sausage kind of stuff, and lumps of barf. The deepfrozen stuff did not 'satisfy' and we thought she would stay hungry after eating.
Now we add different lumps, (chicken necks amongst others) in a wide variety and now she is satisfied after eating and lays at ease.

Our Nova was too skinny for our taste, would not eat only if we fed by hand untill we started of raw (deepfrozen).

She is a litte heavy now, though not yet overweigth. She is doing so well on raw opposed to kibble. Balance is an issue though. You have to always make sure she gets a variety in a good balance.

She now eats what she can get (Run, cats, run!).

Good luck!

[jasonjcyr]

Hi Cathy,

I feel the same way about the dry food, it's processed food and I wouldn't feed anyone McDonalds everyday. London (my toller) was on the bravo raw diet since 4 months, now he's a year old and he'd rather starve than eat his food. I'm don't know why maybe it had something to with nasty habit of chewing on rocks.

Well now we simply grind up a top round cut of meat mix in vegies and eggs and cook it in one big pot. He loves and I'm happy because I know what's in it.

You can see picture and videos of mine on the new site
http://www.thetoller.com

I'm curious to know how yours is doing.
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Jason J Cyr
A Nova Scotia Scotia Duck Toller
social network.
Http://www.TheToller.com

[EuroNova]

Hi All,

Just a quick update. We came across Natural Instinct shortly after I posted my questions. They deliver to your door ready made mix of raw meat and veg frozen.
It's absolutely brilliant. Nova loves it. No winds, little poo to pick up, she is full of energy and absolutely adores it!
I still feed her a bit of Orijen on the side (as treats for clicker training or when on holiday). She always did great on Orijen, which is prob as close to Raw a kibble will ever be. I just try and vary things as I don't think anyone -dog or human - should eat the same day in day out... it's bound to create deficit in some nutrients or vitamins. So we complement with a bit of apple or carrots as treats. Sometime a kong with peanut butter or marmite and the occasional scap.
We are now brave enough to do the occasional raw chicken wing or back of chicken. She had her yearly check up last week and the vet was very impressed with her sparkling white teeth (admittedly less impressed when i told him about chicken wings lol....
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Vero and Nova (Secret Squirrel at Euronova)
www.euronova-tollers.com

[Janken]

Thanks for that posting Veronique - am trying very hard to convince Ken that this is the way to go for our dogs and your posting has helped enormously. I will have to buy a new freezer though!
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Mufti (Decoymans Piper Miss Muffet) 29 06 00
Ruari (Erikachen Ruari) 14 05 09
Freddie & Afton
Poppy (Paludic Yuletime Pie) 30 11 03
Amy & Bebe. RIP sadly missed

[jasonjcyr]

You hear so many nightmare stories about the kibble, because it isn't regulated at the level of our food, I simply don't trust it. It is more expensive but if you can afford it you'll notice a big difference in your dog.
It’s also about ¼ of the price if you make it yourself and a better cut of meat.
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Jason J Cyr
A Nova Scotia Scotia Duck Toller
social network.
Http://www.TheToller.com

[Odile]

I read this discussion with a large interest.
Living in great-Britain and/or in countryside seems the solution for BARF feeding.
Here, I am living in suburbs and I have no possibility at all to fond meat and vegetables at a good price.
The deep-freeze shop has an animal meat proposition but it seems be made with scraps from slaughterhouse and I am non confident.

So I use Leo Specific Dermil dry food. For my toller it is €1,2 pro day. I put also some safflower or night primerose oil once a day.

My golden retriever who died at 15 years and 4 months was feed the same method (Eukanuba, then Biomill, then Leo specific) depending of the free home delivery possibility. She had marvellous teeth and was slim with a super coat!
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Odile
My dog page

[cathyjs]

[quote="Odile"]...........Here, I am living in suburbs and I have no possibility at all to fond meat and vegetables at a good price.......... I put also some safflower or night primerose oil once a day.

Can you find a local old fashioned butcher who would sell lambs hearts, lamb ribs and maybe chicken wings? And dogs don't need big quantities of vegetables.
Also be careful with long term use of evening primrose oil - it has been linked with epilepsy in some dogs(not Tollers though). Safflower oil is a very good alternative without the possible danger.
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Cathy, with tollers Newfanova Nordic Pizzazz, Newfanova Aurora at Shoredancer and Avonwharfe Grace at Shoredancer

[jasonjcyr]

Just make sure you don't cut out all the fat, you should try to keep the fat content at around 15%.
_________________
Jason J Cyr
A Nova Scotia Scotia Duck Toller
social network.
Http://www.TheToller.com

[Shelly]

I would like to see some of these research documents linking kibble to health problems. And what brands have been researched? Have only the "popular" grocery store brands been researched? What about high quality kibble?

I think theres 2 types of kibble here, theres what i consider "junk food" brands that have a lot of corn in it, then theres higher quality kibble without all of the corn.

What I feed is Natural Planet Organics:

http://www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/naturalplanetorganics/dog_food

And then I'll either make some eggs and mix that in, mix in some fish oil, or mix in some Nupro. Cooked chicken and beef is also added occasionally, along with carrots and green beans.
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